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TOPIC: Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape

Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372102

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Lucie wrote: The problem is, of course, that people are homeless for various reasons, so they can't all be treated in the same way. I still think anyone who is genuinely homeless should be forced into a hostel. There they can be assessed and each case dealt with separately.

All this shock, horror attitude achieves nothing. Something practical needs to be done. Vagrancy used to be illegal, here in Britain anyway, so Trump's plan is nothing new. There are also itinerant workers, at least they were prepared to work for a crust instead of expecting hand-outs.



But forcing people into hostels against their will is ok?? That is your idea of something practical??

No way would I be in favour of that.
The following user(s) said Well Said: Annette
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Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372119

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Deuteronomy 15:11
For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

But, as usual for some peope, only when it fits their agenda.

For them here is a little reminder:

Proverbs 21:13
Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.
LEAVER DEA AS SLAEF !
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Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372130

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Vegemite Kid wrote:

Lucie wrote: The problem is, of course, that people are homeless for various reasons, so they can't all be treated in the same way. I still think anyone who is genuinely homeless should be forced into a hostel. There they can be assessed and each case dealt with separately.

All this shock, horror attitude achieves nothing. Something practical needs to be done. Vagrancy used to be illegal, here in Britain anyway, so Trump's plan is nothing new. There are also itinerant workers, at least they were prepared to work for a crust instead of expecting hand-outs.



But forcing people into hostels against their will is ok?? That is your idea of something practical??

No way would I be in favour of that.


Can't you see things from another viewpoint? Perhaps where you live is rather Utopian and you don't have to encounter men sitting outside the supermarket holding out their hands as you walk in. As I've said before, certain people have followed these men home at the end of the day and found that, in fact, they are not destitute at all. These people are gaining money under false pretences, which is criminal! If all 'beggars' were properly investigated, that would put a stop to it. Hopefully the genuine would then be given the help they need.

As I said, something practical needs to be done!! Lifting your voice in outrage achieves nothing, and nor does criticising the suggestions made by others who have to encounter these people every time they go into town.
The following user(s) said Well Said: Jennet, Jane R
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Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372192

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Well if they are not destitute they are not rough sleepers or homeless which is what the thread was about, not about people pretending to be beggars.

Seeing things from another view point doesn't mean agreeing with that viewpoint - and I strongly disagree that arresting homeless people and forcing them into hostels like criminals is an ok practical solution.

That achieves nothing except to criminalise destitute people.

And, no, it isn't a utopia where I live - homelessness is an issue everywhere.
The following user(s) said Well Said: Annette
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Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372193

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I absolutely agree with the above post - why are people complaining because the immense homeless problem is at least being tackled or an attempt made. Perhaps those who oppose it don't have to care since they won't have to step over human excrement in the streets. Perhaps they are okay with the mess and disease as long as they don't have to live with it.
From what I understand Trump intends to home the homeless in buildings standing empty., what a sensible idea unless of course the fact that it's Trump doing it makes it a crime as per usual = which would then suggest that our thoughts of the plight of the homeless doesn't go very deep at all.
The following user(s) said Well Said: Jennet
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Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372194

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Perhaps same could be said of others - they are only in favour because Trump suggested it.

But, No, it isn't the fact that Trump suggested it that I object to - it is the forcing of homeless people into cells against their will, as if they were criminals.

And Serena has quoted Trumps words - the main concern seems making places look better for the wealthy by moving homeless people out of sight, not any concern for their welfare.


Which would suggest our concern for the homeless isn't very deep at all - we just don't want to be confronted by it and want it hidden out of sight, by force if neccesary.
The following user(s) said Well Said: Annette
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Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372208

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Lucie wrote: The problem is, of course, that people are homeless for various reasons, so they can't all be treated in the same way. I still think anyone who is genuinely homeless should be forced into a hostel. There they can be assessed and each case dealt with separately.

All this shock, horror attitude achieves nothing. Something practical needs to be done. Vagrancy used to be illegal, here in Britain anyway, so Trump's plan is nothing new. There are also itinerant workers, at least they were prepared to work for a crust instead of expecting hand-outs.


Vagrancy is still illegal in England and Wales but most people who work with the homeless recognise that criminalising rough sleepers is not the way to deal with people who are sleeping rough.
The Police are now trying to avoid arresting people under The Vagrancy Act for being homeless and sleeping on the streets, so the number of arrests for this have halved in recent years and the Police Chiefs are asking the Govt to review this archaic law because criminalising someone for not having a home just doesn’t work.

The Police agree with the charities who work with homeless people that charging them with vagrancy only makes their situation worse - they get a criminal record and usually end up with a fine they have absolutely no likelihood of being able to pay. The Police and the charities agree that sentencing them to spending time in prison does not improve their situation either, it just makes it worse.

The calls for Parliament to Repeal the Vagrancy Act were answered in June 2019, with a promise to Review the Act by March 2020.

“This Government is clear that no-one should be criminalised simply for having nowhere to live and sleeping rough. The cross-Government Rough Sleeping Strategy, which was published in August, committed to reviewing homelessness and rough sleeping legislation, including the Vagrancy Act 1824. The Government believes that review of the 1824 Act, rather than immediate wholesale repeal, is the right course of action to ensure the consequences of repeal are fully understood. MHCLG will report no later than March 2020.”

The Cons. Govt Manifesto in 2017 committed to halving the number of rough sleepers by 2022 and end rough sleeping altogether by 2027. I doubt they will but we will have to see what progress they make.
I don’t know what they have done so far to make this happen but, since this pledge was made, I have noticed an increase in the number of rough sleepers in a North West town which I visit quite often.
I have also noticed an increase in the number of people living in tents along the canal side in the last two years.
We often chat to them as we pass by in the narrowboat and share some of our food with them. They are mostly young men, who have no priority housing need, so no chance of acquiring social housing and cannot afford private rents, with the chronic housing shortage we have.

Here is the Govt Rough Sleeping Strategy document published August 2018 -

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governm...ing-Strategy_WEB.pdf

I don’t know if the new Johnson Govt will be making changes to it.


As for Trump’s plan, I haven’t looked into it in detail so cannot comment much.
From the little bit I have gleaned from this thread - utilising empty buildings to provide accommodation is a good idea, but if the plan is to make homelessness or rough sleeping a criminal offence, I think that is a bad idea, for all the same reasons our police, govt and charities have realised that it’s a bad idea.

The only way to tackle the problem is to start addressing the root causes of it - Prevention of homelessness by having better social care and mental health care and more help to those already on the streets to get their life back on track.
The following user(s) said Well Said: Vegemite Kid
Step by step, one goes a long way.
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Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372218

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For me people who are homeless should be helped depending on the reason they are homeless.
If it is bad luck lack of education and pure financial because of these reasons then help them.
If it is because they have mental illness and cannot cope so just sit in a street Help them.
If it is because they prefer to spend their money on drugs and alcohol rather than rent and food then be generous give them a tent and send them to Alaska, I am sure they would start to get a grip of themselves and think about paying rent before drugs and booze. Sorry I have no sympathy for people who put selfish addictions before their kids families and just cause grief to anyone who knows them and refuse to go get help for said addictions when the help is there if they want it.
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Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372241

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Vegemite Kid wrote: Perhaps same could be said of others - they are only in favour because Trump suggested it.

But, No, it isn't the fact that Trump suggested it that I object to - it is the forcing of homeless people into cells against their will, as if they were criminals.

And Serena has quoted Trumps words - the main concern seems making places look better for the wealthy by moving homeless people out of sight, not any concern for their welfare.


Which would suggest our concern for the homeless isn't very deep at all - we just don't want to be confronted by it and want it hidden out of sight, by force if neccesary.




I would have thought most would be in favour of getting the homeless off the street. Something needs to be done and at least Trump is making an effort to tackle it. It doesn't matter for what reasons, no one wants to see people lying about in the streets - and I'm sure none of us would want to live in such areas.

I hope Trump's initiative is successful, more power to his elbow.
The following user(s) said Well Said: Jennet
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Trump's Plan to Criminalize Homelessness Is Taking Shape 3 months 1 week ago #3372244

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Annette wrote: Deuteronomy 15:11
For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

But, as usual for some peope, only when it fits their agenda.

For them here is a little reminder:

Proverbs 21:13
Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.



And Thessalonians 3 v 8 - 10

We were not idle when we were with you,
8
nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, labouring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you.
9
We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow.
10
For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."


At least let's make a start in helping those homeless get their lives back on track so they too can work....
The following user(s) said Well Said: Jennet
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