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TOPIC: Brexit:

Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3001935

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Unfortunately memories are short, contemporary issues thus tending to "be quick jerk" reactions.
When the World financial crisis occured 07/08 the Blairite Socialist had racked a country with enormous debt and no Sovereign wealth . With a prediction that if spending continued at that rate, it would take 35yrs! to recover.
Conservatives elected 2010 as clearly the only party with a cats chance in hell in preventing the UK bottoming out below that of Greece.
Choice, Bankruptcy or Austerity.
Austerity was never going to be popular whichever Government.
To demonise, particularly Mrs May, for the measures needed to be taken is churlish, it taking sterling [no pun intended] tenacity and resolve to navigate through all the inevitable resentment and belt tightening required.
Whether, during Cameron's leadership, considering leaving or staying within the EU., is questionable. [>> IMO Mrs Merkle's directive to disperse a million migrants pro rata throughout EU countries was the last straw for UK citizens]
However the Referendum, having been erroneously [IMO] given, there is a constitutional necessity to see, yet another "worm in the woodwork", resolved without further impingement derailing the targets set, to emerge from dept within half the time originally forecasted.

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Last Edit: by QuinTSensual. Reason: grammer

Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3002048

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Taner wrote:

Polliyana wrote: She decimated the police when Home Secretary, and now she is doing it to our country. I'm so sad.



And you want the likes of her and Johnson and Gove etc to make a better job of running the country than us continuing as we were!!! ???


Can you repeat that in English? I don't want TM never did. And yes I think people who voted to leave, will have the courage of their convictions. May and Hammond ( who should have been sacked a while ago imo) are hardest remainers.

If we stay now, we would be just puppets doing the very expensive bidding of the EU.
In the end the UK taxpayers foot the bill.[/quote





If we leave the EU we could still be puppets of a Tory government that expects those on lower wages to pay taxes while allowing the exceptionally wealthy to pay very little or even no taxes.


One other thing - could you desist from making comments about my ability to use the English language, as the Mods don't usually allow it. I often see misspellings and wrong words used by certain posters but I refrain from using it against them.
The following user(s) said Well Said: Aida, Davegem

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Last Edit: by Taner.

Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3002056

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Taner wrote:

Taner wrote:

Polliyana wrote: She decimated the police when Home Secretary, and now she is doing it to our country. I'm so sad.



And you want the likes of her and Johnson and Gove etc to make a better job of running the country than us continuing as we were!!! ???


Can you repeat that in English? I don't want TM never did. And yes I think people who voted to leave, will have the courage of their convictions. May and Hammond ( who should have been sacked a while ago imo) are hardest remainers.

If we stay now, we would be just puppets doing the very expensive bidding of the EU.
In the end the UK taxpayers foot the bill.[/quote





If we leave the EU we could still be puppets of a Tory government that expects those on lower wages to pay taxes while allowing the exceptionally wealthy to pay very little or even no taxes.


One other thing - could you desist from making comments about my ability to use the English language, as the Mods don't usually allow it. I often see misspellings and wrong words used by certain posters but I refrain from using it against them.


There is nothing wrong with your command of the English language, Taner. The way you write, your style, spelling and grammar is consistent, never varying...
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Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3002090

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'Can you repeat that in English ?' is a colloqualism, a way of saying
' What are you talking about ? '

Your meaning is always clear.

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Last Edit: by Aida.

Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3002145

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pascalou wrote:

Davegem wrote: I have a feeling the EU might survive Brexit.



I certainly share the same feeling alongside all my EU friends. We certainly to not worry about brexit being the demise of the EU.


Brexit will be the catalyst. One has only to look at the remains of the once-mighty, invincible Soviet Union to understand what happens when one brick is removed from the wall. And that is only recent history. All down the ages mighty empires have come and gone and there is no reason why the EU should be any different.

The opinion that Brexit is an identity crisis has some validity. The English have no national identity.....the Scots are Scottish, the Welsh are Welsh and the Irish, Irish but the English are British and from small acorns of resentment big oaks grow. Couple that with the blatant lies told us by our political leaders when we entered the Common Market and the even bigger lies told by Blair and Brown regarding numbers of Eastern European immigrants expected and the result is the situation we find ourselves in now.

It would seem from the movements to the far right in France and Germany, the Hungarian government’s refusal to open its borders and the murmurings of dissatisfaction in Poland, the Czech Republic and elsewhere that hairline cracks are appearing as countries realise that more and more of their sovereign independence is being leeched away. Maybe the EU should return to trade instead of the political Black Widow it has become, trapping us all in its web.
The following user(s) said Well Said: Polliyana, Jane R, QuinTSensual

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Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3002172

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bryoney wrote:

pascalou wrote:

Davegem wrote: I have a feeling the EU might survive Brexit.



I certainly share the same feeling alongside all my EU friends. We certainly to not worry about brexit being the demise of the EU.


Brexit will be the catalyst. One has only to look at the remains of the once-mighty, invincible Soviet Union to understand what happens when one brick is removed from the wall. And that is only recent history. All down the ages mighty empires have come and gone and there is no reason why the EU should be any different.

The opinion that Brexit is an identity crisis has some validity. The English have no national identity.....the Scots are Scottish, the Welsh are Welsh and the Irish, Irish but the English are British and from small acorns of resentment big oaks grow. Couple that with the blatant lies told us by our political leaders when we entered the Common Market and the even bigger lies told by Blair and Brown regarding numbers of Eastern European immigrants expected and the result is the situation we find ourselves in now.

It would seem from the movements to the far right in France and Germany, the Hungarian government’s refusal to open its borders and the murmurings of dissatisfaction in Poland, the Czech Republic and elsewhere that hairline cracks are appearing as countries realise that more and more of their sovereign independence is being leeched away. Maybe the EU should return to trade instead of the political Black Widow it has become, trapping us all in its web.


Well that's one perception of the EU, as some malignant force hellbent on destroying all that is good.
There is another view though, that the EU has brought stability and prosperity to millions.
It has its faults, the appalling handling of Greece, the problems of immigration, but nothing that can't be tackled from within the EU.
The problem with England is the fact we want an external source on which to blame our failings, and by far the most popular, driven by those with vested interests, is the EU. In reality all our problems will still remain, and I await with interest what the Brexiteers will find to blame that on in the years to come, as England sinks further into its apathy.
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Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3002179

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pascalou wrote:

D1A2V3I4 wrote: Bryoney I have afraid that you are wrong. If you leave the UK and go live in the EU before March 2019 you will still be a UK citizen. You cease to be an EU citizen as the UK will no longer be a member of the EU. You will just be an immigrant in the EU from the UK.
We in Spain are UK immigrants and as all the British are for the moment. We want to keep our EU citizenship as well as our UK citizenship n but there is nothing in the Brexit negotiators to allow that.


I understand so well D and this is why Brexit is such a sensitive issue because it touches us to the chore to who we are and how we define ourselves.
The Brits who only feel Brits and never ever felt European from within, could not care less about leaving the E.U. which is totally understandable.

The Brits raised within a European Uk, with European values, and feel as much a part of the E.U as a part of the U.K feel stripped of half their identity and that is very painful and felt by pretty much many people from the younger generation.

I feel just as European as I feel French and being asked to give up my French Passport or my E.U passport would be like depriving me of half of my identity....:(

Nothing to do with having a cake and eat it and everything to do with who I am a French and a European.
Not a French 1st and European 2nd just a European French, this is my identity and who I am, just like kids with parents from 2 different nationalities , the kids can not choose, they are who they are by birth and education, and I believe no matter wether you are a brexiter or a remainer, deep inside our identity is being threatened and that is why it makes this whole situation very explosive... as it is very emotional for all parties involved...

And the consequences are massive for the economics and the future prosperity of the U.K.


Great post Pascalou, and you echo the sentiments of many Europeans that I've met both in England and this last decade or so in France.
You can speak for me any day on this issue.
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Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3002390

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Well that's one perception of the EU, as some malignant force hellbent on destroying all that is good.
There is another view though, that the EU has brought stability and prosperity to millions.
It has its faults, the appalling handling of Greece, the problems of immigration, Well that's one perception of the EU, as some malignant force hellbent on destroying all that is good.
There is another view though, that the EU has brought stability and prosperity to millions.
It has its faults, the appalling handling of Greece, the problems of immigration, but nothing that can't be tackled from within the EU

Now where did I say that the EU was a malignant force? It is certainly an ambitious force with an iron will when it comes to getting its own way. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it worked reasonably well as a trading organisation and should have remained that way. I will never understand how so many people who live in a democratic country can be so complacent about being ruled from Brussels by unelected and, until recently, faceless Eurocrats. Surely the three principles of democracy are Accountability, Transparency and Engagement. I find Brussels lacking in the first two (and yes, most Governments are the same but we do at least get the chance to elect those) and do not feel at all Engaged with a ruling autocracy on another landmass.

As for the remarkable statement ‘nothing that can’t be tackled from within the EU’ that is somewhat naive given that Cameron tried to do exactly that and discovered that the EU did not want to change indeed, has only murmured about reform since confronted with Brexit.

Vested interests - it seems to me that most of the interests are vested in remaining within the EU. I am certainly not looking for an external source on which to lay blame but Iam sick to death of being told how to live by self appointed, unaccountable Leaders of Men who are so corrupt that their accountants refuse to sign their books off year after year.
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Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3002400

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bryoney wrote: Well that's one perception of the EU, as some malignant force hellbent on destroying all that is good.
There is another view though, that the EU has brought stability and prosperity to millions.
It has its faults, the appalling handling of Greece, the problems of immigration, Well that's one perception of the EU, as some malignant force hellbent on destroying all that is good.
There is another view though, that the EU has brought stability and prosperity to millions.
It has its faults, the appalling handling of Greece, the problems of immigration, but nothing that can't be tackled from within the EU

Now where did I say that the EU was a malignant force? It is certainly an ambitious force with an iron will when it comes to getting its own way. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it worked reasonably well as a trading organisation and should have remained that way. I will never understand how so many people who live in a democratic country can be so complacent about being ruled from Brussels by unelected and, until recently, faceless Eurocrats. Surely the three principles of democracy are Accountability, Transparency and Engagement. I find Brussels lacking in the first two (and yes, most Governments are the same but we do at least get the chance to elect those) and do not feel at all Engaged with a ruling autocracy on another landmass.

As for the remarkable statement ‘nothing that can’t be tackled from within the EU’ that is somewhat naive given that Cameron tried to do exactly that and discovered that the EU did not want to change indeed, has only murmured about reform since confronted with Brexit.

Vested interests - it seems to me that most of the interests are vested in remaining within the EU. I am certainly not looking for an external source on which to lay blame but Iam sick to death of being told how to live by self appointed, unaccountable Leaders of Men who are so corrupt that their accountants refuse to sign their books off year after year.


Hmm. Like I say, I see the EU in a different way, I've seen crumbling cities rejuvenated by them whilst our government looks on, I've seen and been involved with the thousands of jobs created by the EU, I've sat with people from all across Europe and laughed and talked, knowing we are more alike than different, and as for unaccountable leaders, well, they're doing a better job imo than the Establishment that has run the UK into the ground over the last century.
By leaving the EU you won't be escaping the few faceless elite that determine our future as a society, you'll just be reinforcing that situation.
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Last Edit: by Davegem.

Brexit: 1 month 1 week ago #3002408

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bryoney wrote: Well that's one perception of the EU, as some malignant force hellbent on destroying all that is good.
There is another view though, that the EU has brought stability and prosperity to millions.
It has its faults, the appalling handling of Greece, the problems of immigration, Well that's one perception of the EU, as some malignant force hellbent on destroying all that is good.
There is another view though, that the EU has brought stability and prosperity to millions.
It has its faults, the appalling handling of Greece, the problems of immigration, but nothing that can't be tackled from within the EU

Now where did I say that the EU was a malignant force? It is certainly an ambitious force with an iron will when it comes to getting its own way. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it worked reasonably well as a trading organisation and should have remained that way. I will never understand how so many people who live in a democratic country can be so complacent about being ruled from Brussels .


Simple Bryoney because we don't feel ruled by Brussels at all we have our own laws and rules.
We are ruled by our respective government.
Although an E.U member
I have no complain to make about our NHS in France
The minute I am sick in bed with a flu and fever I dialed a doctor and he is by my bedside for free at any time of night or day.
My relative has to care for someone with Parkinson desease and has a nurse visit him morning and evening for free as well.

As for migrants
Well we are free to vet and indeed do vet them anyway we want.
The burqas are forbidden in France as seen as symbols of radical Islams so people insisting not to integrate and wear burqa leave France and move to the UK.
Our 6 millions of Muslims are therefore first and foremost French Europeans who happen to be Muslims with French republican values and are obliged by law to learn to speak French and integrate to get a passport.

Speaking of the very strong economics ties the E.U. has, I just watched a very interesting program on TV where E.U experts were saying that to maintain a strong economics we need to have a very strong E.U defense as no way we could let ourselves have to import defense from the US in the future if we want to maintain a strong economics and stay independant... Makes sense to me....

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