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TOPIC: The TV Licence in the UK

The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3641744

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Eira wrote:

knighten wrote:
Trouble with what you say is this is not a tax.This is a fee.Taxes are paid by those that can afford them.Taxes are generally fairer.The fee discriminates.Capita are paid millions to enforce this.A private company with shareholders making money at the expense of the poor.Once you get a criminal conviction your life chances of success go down a few notches.The system is unacceptable.Not having the BBC is worth it for those people


Yes, I agree with you.
That is why I think the long term solution should be to fund public broadcasting services from a socially fairer income-related taxation, similar to how it’s done in Finland.

I’m not sure but I think the Government and BBC are tied into the current arrangement until 2027, so can’t change the basic funding arrangements until then, which is why I thought the suggestion of exempting low income households could be something which could be implemented straight away, if the Govt agreed to reimburse the cost of that until the next Review.


Well reality is they need to change more and more people are agreeing with me the polls tell you that.Soon it won't be change the licence fee it will be abolish the BBC

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The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3641810

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There is many in the UK who want the licence fee abolished and there is many out there who do not want any kind of dealings with the BBC and any of it affiliates because of the cover ups in the Jimmy Saville case and other wrong doings, that is a persons own choice not to deal with the BBC.

The BBC is a company the same as Tesco and if you decide you no longer want to shop at Tesco they have no write to come to your house and mither you to come back, The BBC through Capita do this? They employ as said Capita to try and see if people are watching tv so they can fine them for not having a licence.

Capita need to make money hence they as is well publicised lie to get warrants and lie to get money out of a persons pocket so they make a profit has been proven this way for a long time by many people and courts.

As I said before the licence is an act not a law hence Collection agencies come to your door to try there luck not police to arrest you for committing a crime.

The royal charter runs out I believe in 2027 and demands are already being put in place by many public organisations to get the licence fee scrapped and the unlawful and nasty things Capita do to try and get money out your pocket.
I support the licence scrapping idea totally.

Also my advice is the same as the citizens advice bureau give if you don't require a licence and the agents knock on your door just say only "I do not want any contract or any dealings with the BBC" and shut the door in their face.
They are not police and can do nothing about it and when they get the hint they can't make money from you they go away.
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The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3641814

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Bruce wrote:
As I said before the licence is an act not a law........


TV Licensing and the law

Part 4 of the Communications Act 2003 makes it an offence to use or install TV receiving equipment to:
watch or record programmes as they’re being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, including programmes streamed over the internet and satellite programmes from outside the UK, or
watch or download BBC programmes on demand, including catch up TV, on BBC iPlayer without being covered by a TV Licence
.
The Act empowers the BBC to make and amend the terms and conditions of a licence. It allows the government to make regulations to exempt or reduce the licence fee for certain persons in certain circumstances. It also makes it an offence for anyone to have any TV receiving equipment in their possession or under their control who intends to use or install it in contravention of the main offence (above), or knows, or has reasonable grounds for believing, that another person intends to install or use a TV receiving equipment in contravention of the main offence.
The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 define what is a 'television set.' The regulations also set out the various types of TV Licence, the criteria for obtaining them, the fees payable for them (including the frequency and amount of instalments) and the different concessions available, including concessions for people who are blind (severely sight impaired), people who are over 74 years of age, people who live in residential care and people who run hotels, guesthouses or campsites.

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The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3641928

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Pats wrote:

Bruce wrote:
As I said before the licence is an act not a law........


TV Licensing and the law

Part 4 of the Communications Act 2003 makes it an offence to use or install TV receiving equipment to:
watch or record programmes as they’re being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, including programmes streamed over the internet and satellite programmes from outside the UK, or
watch or download BBC programmes on demand, including catch up TV, on BBC iPlayer without being covered by a TV Licence
.
The Act empowers the BBC to make and amend the terms and conditions of a licence. It allows the government to make regulations to exempt or reduce the licence fee for certain persons in certain circumstances. It also makes it an offence for anyone to have any TV receiving equipment in their possession or under their control who intends to use or install it in contravention of the main offence (above), or knows, or has reasonable grounds for believing, that another person intends to install or use a TV receiving equipment in contravention of the main offence.
The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 define what is a 'television set.' The regulations also set out the various types of TV Licence, the criteria for obtaining them, the fees payable for them (including the frequency and amount of instalments) and the different concessions available, including concessions for people who are blind (severely sight impaired), people who are over 74 years of age, people who live in residential care and people who run hotels, guesthouses or campsites.



As I said it is an Act not a law. That it is why it is impossible to be arrested and charged with a criminal offence for not having a TV Licence as it is not a criminal offence it is an offence under communications act because the Act has never been passed as a law by parliament so again this is why the police do not attend to people who are watching tv without a licence and they don't attend to people who don't buy a licence legitimately to check up on them , it is similar to contract law where to take some one to court and get them found guilty of breaking contract law or the Act which is the communications act they need good solid proof hence the house search with a warrant.

Police only attend over tv licence offences when a warrant to enter the house is being executed and the job of the police is solely to prevent a breach of the peace they cannot assist in the execution of the warrant as it is a civil matter between the TV Licensing Authority and the person without a licence.

Note the highlighted words above it states OFFENCE not Law this is because it is an offence under the act to watch live tv it is not breaking a law like criminal damage or theft is. If the police see you smash a shop window you are committing an offence which means it is offending someone, It is law not to commit criminal damage hence you get charged with Committing Criminal Damage under what ever section of the Law which has been passed through Parliament and become a criminal offence unlike the communications act which is just that an Act.

Offence means it is a punishable act when the word offence is used in Acts and laws, The police deal with Laws and Solicitors deal with Acts but this is where the agents who visit your house come in as they are the information gatherers for the companies in this case the BBC. So this leads us to the simple case of if the information gatherers cannot get any information they have no case.

This is where the dirty tricks come in to it as these same gatherers lie and make up information as proved in many cases hence one should always video record any visit by these agents as well as refusing point blank to talk a single word to them.

The agents are the main problem, the BBC are disgusting for letting these agents knowing full well they do not follow the code of conduct issued by the Licensing authorities to continue to stitch people up just to put money in their greedy little pockets, that is what is wrong with the licensing authorities.

Now this stitching up happens on a regular basis as proven many times in court hearings.

I ask if this was the police who arrested you on suspicion of committing a crime but they had no proof to offer the CPS or a court the case would be dismissed but if the Police like they used to do often in the 60s&70s fabricate proof and get innocent people prosecuted is that fair? Of course not but this is what happens with the licencing authorities and because everyone thinks it is a criminal offence to watch tv without a licence so if someone got done they must have been breaking that law (which doesn't exist) they ignore it and turn a blind eye. They don't see the stitch ups.
The Police had to get there act together after huge cases where evidence was fabricated and rightly so, Isn't it about time the TV licensing authorities and the agents usually Capita were bought in to line for doing the exact same thing?


The Institute of Economic Affairs at the beginning of June this year has condemned TV Licence and said after 75 years times have changed reference viewing tv and it is completely wrong that any one in the UK has to buy a TV Licence to watch live tv when the channels being watched are nothing to do with the BBC like Sky.
They are pushing for a change too, they would recommend subscription or allow adverts and let the BBC fund themselves through that not the public purse (I agree) Also no tax should be burdened on the public to watch other channels outside the BBCs network (I agree).

Just one of many official places who are condemning the TV Licence as out of date and hugely unfair.

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The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3642008

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There seems to be a bit of a mix up over the law in the above post.

An Act of Parliament is how new laws are created or existing laws amended.
An Act is a Bill that has been approved by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords and been given Royal Assent by the Monarch. Taken together, Acts of Parliament make up what is known as Statute Law in the UK.
The law relating to TV Licence evasion makes it a criminal offence; it is not a civil offence and does not fall under contract law.

The BBC is a statutory corporation, which has a different legal status to the other companies it has been compared to in a previous post, and it has been given certain powers under a Royal Charter and various Acts of Parliament, including the Communications Act 2003.


Extract taken from the House of Lords Parliamentary Library Briefing :

What does the law say? 
Under part 4 of the Communications Act 2003, it is a criminal offence to use television receiving equipment without a licence to view or record live programmes on any channel, including online streaming of live programmes. 
You also need a licence to view or download programmes on BBC iPlayer. Licence fee evasion is not itself an imprisonable offence—conviction is punishable by a fine of up to £1,000. Non-payment of a court-imposed fine can, in some cases, lead to imprisonment. 

The fact that it is a criminal offence is what has prompted all the consultations and discussions about whether this offence should be “decriminalised” in the future.
No matter how many advocates call for change, until Parliament passes an Act of Parliament to make changes to the Law, it will remain a criminal offence.

Here is what the Government published this January, in response to the consultation about it. Paragraph 76 and 77 make it clear that it remains a criminal offence and there is no immediate plan to change that - but the Govt have undertaken to “continue to explore options” that may offer an effective way of decriminalising this offence by implementing a replacement civil sanction.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governm..._21_January_2021.pdf

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The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3642043

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In simple terms. watching live TV however you watch it, is not allowed if you do not have a licence. When you use the On Demand services, whether it be on a smart TV, Freeview box or any other specialist device of your choice, you are not watching it live and you are not using the TV receiver in that device, if it has one, you are downloading the data over the internet, so no licence is required. Had a good look around on the internet yesterday and found several programs that I like are available to still be watched over the internet, just a day or two after they where first broadcast live, which I'm fine with.

As regards having an account with one or more of the streaming services, depending on your type of account, you are able to share with family and friends. An Amazon prime account can have up to six profiles assigned to it, and a Netflix account can have up to four profiles assigned to it. Each profile can be used on more than one device, as long as you use just one device at a time for each profile. Having been speaking to family and friends over this past week, a lot of them are currently doing this.
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The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3642315

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Eira wrote: There seems to be a bit of a mix up over the law in the above post.

An Act of Parliament is how new laws are created or existing laws amended.
An Act is a Bill that has been approved by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords and been given Royal Assent by the Monarch. Taken together, Acts of Parliament make up what is known as Statute Law in the UK.
The law relating to TV Licence evasion makes it a criminal offence; it is not a civil offence and does not fall under contract law.

The BBC is a statutory corporation, which has a different legal status to the other companies it has been compared to in a previous post, and it has been given certain powers under a Royal Charter and various Acts of Parliament, including the Communications Act 2003.


Extract taken from the House of Lords Parliamentary Library Briefing :

What does the law say? 
Under part 4 of the Communications Act 2003, it is a criminal offence to use television receiving equipment without a licence to view or record live programmes on any channel, including online streaming of live programmes. 
You also need a licence to view or download programmes on BBC iPlayer. Licence fee evasion is not itself an imprisonable offence—conviction is punishable by a fine of up to £1,000. Non-payment of a court-imposed fine can, in some cases, lead to imprisonment. 

The fact that it is a criminal offence is what has prompted all the consultations and discussions about whether this offence should be “decriminalised” in the future.
No matter how many advocates call for change, until Parliament passes an Act of Parliament to make changes to the Law, it will remain a criminal offence.

Here is what the Government published this January, in response to the consultation about it. Paragraph 76 and 77 make it clear that it remains a criminal offence and there is no immediate plan to change that - but the Govt have undertaken to “continue to explore options” that may offer an effective way of decriminalising this offence by implementing a replacement civil sanction.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governm..._21_January_2021.pdf





An Act of Parliament (also called a statute) is a law made by the UK Parliament.

All Acts start as bills introduced in either the Commons or the Lords. When a bill has been agreed by both Houses of Parliament and has been given Royal Assent by the Monarch, it becomes an Act. This is what the TV Licence rules fall under an Act

Acts are known as ‘primary legislation’ because they do not depend on other legislative authority.

Go on Youtube and watch real life situations with Agents with warrants and the police in attendance, BBC TV Licence Goons Fail To Issue Search Warrant is a normal refusal of allowing them in even when they have a warrant, The police basically do nothing except try explain what they think is correct but look at the difference when the police and the agents get on their phones/radios and check the legal argument the house owner is offering, Also the police do some talking when all there for is to ensure a breach of the peace doesn't happen, in this video I believe the police are just doing what they think is correct to deescalate any possible breach of the peace, well done police on this one.

You have to remember there is many things which in the UK we are told is law and is a criminal offence like Trespassing, for years people have and still believe Trespass to be a criminal offence, It isn't it is a civil matter between the trespasser and the land owner and the only time it can become a criminal offence is if the trespasser deliberately tries to cause harm or damage to stock business's or something going on on the land then it is criminal but just walking on someone else's land is not criminal.

Google and other places like to have things shown which favour the government and corporations yet speak to a solicitor and it is a totally different ball game hence most people who end up in court over tv licence offences do not get a criminal record. Tv Licence agents when keep getting refused entry even with warrants stop coming to your house as they can't make any money from being told no thanks go away. Would the police stop looking for you if you had committed a criminal offence? No certainly not.

The police know the tv licensing act is so full of grey areas as to if it is criminal or not they decide not to get involved, They know full well the CPS will reject every claim of TV Licence evasion as it cannot be proven as criminal hence the police will not act on any TV Licence issue.

It is an offence to watch live tv without a licence granted and getting fined for it sucks but that is the way it is for now agree or disagree with it that is the way it is.
Getting a criminal record from the same offence only comes in when the court fines you and you fail to pay it and get sent back to court as failing to pay fines issued by a court is criminal, The fact you watched tv without a licence isn't criminal it is an offence which is prosecutable but not criminal according to lawyers.

Don't believe everything we are told by Government and Corporations if you want the truth speak to a lawyer.
Do we believe the MP who knocks on our doors at voting time and says they are going to do all these wonderful things if you vote them in and when they get voted in do they carry that promise out? No most of the time.

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The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3642512

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Currently, anyone who watches or records live TV or uses iPlayer without a TV licence is committing a criminal offence.

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The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3642516

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Pats wrote: Currently, anyone who watches or records live TV or uses iPlayer without a TV licence is committing a criminal offence.


So a lot believe but I prefer what has been proven time and time again which is Currently anyone who watches or records live TV or uses iPlayer without a TV licence is committing a prosecutable offence.

Last year the government stopped anyone from going to jail for committing TV Licence evasion and declared it must be settled by fines.

Don't want a fine? Don't commit licence evasion.
Don't want to pay for a licence don't watch anything you can get it to trouble for.
The governments petition has passed the 10k mark and now the government will respond hopefully doing away with the licence completely.

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The TV Licence in the UK 4 months 2 weeks ago #3642522

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Bruce wrote:

Pats wrote: Currently, anyone who watches or records live TV or uses iPlayer without a TV licence is committing a criminal offence.


So a lot believe but I prefer what has been proven time and time again which is Currently anyone who watches or records live TV or uses iPlayer without a TV licence is committing a prosecutable offence. .


Exactly...... Procecutable offence .....’to proceed against a defendant by charging that person with a crime.

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